Louder Than Guns – The Assignment with Audie Cornish – Podcast on CNN Podcasts

I did not suppose we would be doing one other episode a few mass capturing so quickly. However right here we’re.

As a neighborhood.

That is from a vigil in Nashville.

Thanks to our artists for sharing the present of music. You’re the custodians of that particular present.

I have been to this place, and I do not imply some sort of memorial after a mass capturing, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a couple of years protecting the South, and it isn’t a giant metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Woman Jill Biden visited the town to attend a vigil for the capturing victims of the Covenant College, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist could be there.

Will the circle be unbroken?

By and by, Lord, by and by.

That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award successful band Outdated Crow Drugs Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their neighborhood and a dad or mum of two faculty aged children. The truth is, the college his children attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is known as the Episcopal College of Nashville.

So I am sporting two totally different hats right here when a college capturing occurs in our city. It is each as a dad or mum and it is as someone who’s on the opposite facet of the decide up line as nicely. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, chances are high at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the large weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a college in Nashville, Tennessee. On the subject of your house, it is totally different.

And the sky lowered within the sky.

Ketch Secor lately wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I needed to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it prefer to stay on the heart of all of it as a dad or mum, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.

The capturing on the Covenant College sort of prompted you to jot down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you are taking me again to that day slightly bit? The place had been you while you heard it occurring?

Certain it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I acquired a textual content message from our faculty lawyer saying, I am so sorry, and I had no concept what was occurring. And prayer hand emoji is attention-grabbing.

So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a capturing, particularly at a college, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Concern. What? What do you are feeling?

It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your children. It is another person’s children. , the pinnacle of faculty was murdered. The connections between our faculty are very current, and it is as a neighborhood member in Nashville, this surprising realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our kids, to our the place that’s most sacred.

And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public faculty. It did not occur at a giant college. It occurred at basically a small Christian major faculty. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.

Yeah. And our colleges are very totally different in that regard and serve totally different populations. Nevertheless, it you understand, we’re all the identical. We’re all each faculty, public, non-public, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that children are our future and should be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you understand, that is an actual elemental precept for me.

Can I ask, how outdated are your children and do they go to the college you based?

Yeah, they do. And so they’re 9 and 11.

So did the college you based this Episcopal faculty, did it go into lockdown? Sort of what what did you you all must do consequently?

No, the colleges adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I believe that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The employees is aware of, the lecturers know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the children. And we will speak about it tomorrow. However we needed to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So in the event you can think about a decide up line, anyone who’s who’s been by way of a college capturing of their neighborhood is aware of, you understand, the decide up line that first day is stuffed with tears.

Proper. And for individuals who aren’t accustomed to how huge ups and drop offs work nowadays in colleges, there’s a line proper, the place like there are sort of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you decide them up. There’s not identical to wandering out of the constructing the place I believe in the event you had been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand go off.

That is proper, Audie. You have to have children.

Nicely, the juxtaposition of youngsters stuffed with vibrant pleasure and life and fogeys stuffed with grief and disappointment coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.

Which means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each dad or mum’s face is simply drawn.

And each dad or mum is each instructor and simply, you understand, holding again tears as is each instructor. However each baby continues to really feel very protected. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no baby is protected any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our children.

I suppose I wish to begin possibly with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that is perhaps the primary music they find out about. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me slightly bit about the place you had been in your profession while you wrote this.

Certain. Nicely, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable music.

Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my solution to North Carolina, staring up.

And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it once I was about 17, going to highschool up in New England in a prep faculty known as Exeter, and I used to be had simply realized to play the banjo up there.

So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any approach you are feeling. Hey mama rock me

You speak about the concept your finest recognized music, Wagon Wheel, is usually blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.

Once you make the sort of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a selected fashion of songwriting, you are partaking in a neighborhood that is perhaps totally different than your personal form of background, and it isn’t. Nicely, there is a practice going by proper now. That is form of proof..

I keep in mind the practice. Yeah.

The trains are all the time going by in Nashville.

Simply acquired to maintain it occurring the podcast. It’s going to add slightly little bit of coloration and speaks to what I am speaking about. , the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. , once I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in all places. That is The South, y’all. It is totally different than the opposite elements of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.

And while you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the individual falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Nicely, that is The South.

Like, that is imagined to cowl loads of issues.

Yeah. And whether or not it is imagined to be that approach or, you understand, I believe we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, and so they’re necessary to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought of just like the insurgent flag prior to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When in actual fact, we now have all the time had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.

And effected change in a method, or at the very least elevate the sort of societal stakes partaking in sure language.

Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in the direction of The South’s evolution.

To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so intently align with their audiences. It’s extremely very similar to hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss in regards to the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the id of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical approach. However consequently, it has loads of like guidelines. , there is a couple traces you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to speak about how that performs out in trendy nation?

Certain. Nicely, in the present day’s nation singer may not come from The South and is faculty educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. , it is it isn’t coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified so much. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.

Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are choice makers and our usually managers, there’s been form of like loads of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers in all probability seems slightly totally different than individuals count on as nicely.

Nicely, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you understand, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, up to date nation music on the radio is an actual protected area for us to not speak about political divisiveness and never speak about issues of of substance. However as an alternative we’re all form of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is

Which is why it is fashionable, proper? I imply, throughout the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming possibly was up 15%. It was increased than every other style.

Individuals welcome that protected area.

Journey story. It is you understand, it’s totally a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the sort of stuff that goes primary is the music about grandpa and what a very good man he was and the way if we may very well be slightly bit extra like him, then the world could be a greater place. So this form of, you understand, hallmark sort of these beliefs which can be tossed round may not be that lifelike for in the present day’s actuality of, you understand, I labored I am a part of a worldwide financial system working two jobs. And, you understand, I am hoping my children are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an necessary antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.

Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a approach that that is constructed into the music, too.

Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I might prefer to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. This can be a solution to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–

However do you hear it within the trendy music? Are there? You do not have to pick any artist. However do individuals nonetheless speak about that?

No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not speak about weapons. If we do, it is a music about I took my boy attempting to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it isn’t saying is I’ve acquired an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a protected area the place they aren’t confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As a substitute, they’re allowed to say, I taught my baby methods to, you understand, I imply, once I was a child within the eighties, like I went chook hunt with Dad, I realized methods to hearth a weapon. I realized methods to clear a weapon. These items are necessary to the ways in which gun tradition generally is a optimistic, however the protected area is that we’re not speaking about what it means in in the present day’s America. As a substitute, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.

So what’s it like for artists reminiscent of your self to lift this subject?

Individuals hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. who’s courageous is the child that pulled the hearth alarm, you understand, within the hallway beneath gunfire in our city in a college, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I will sing in regards to the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I will inform what I see.

I do not wish to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?

Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city and so they bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless recent, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the fact. It is like, Good God, the place will we stay? What will we not care about children in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my approach of claiming it isn’t over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it will be over.

Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.

You might be demanding a brand new sort of motion come out of the south. And that it partially be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as nicely, not simply politicians, individuals reminiscent of your self. Why do you suppose it may make a distinction?

Nicely, I believe that Nashville stands uniquely poised to guide a response to the college capturing epidemic.

However why do you suppose that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of they’d a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to suppose that?

Nicely, Nashville, even if the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to prepared the ground. I am saying Nashville.

Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it isn’t simply Tennessee, you’ve got acquired these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of crimson, and by crimson I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This appears like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.

And I do know it is value it. I do not wish to as a result of everyone knows it is value it. However I need I wish to perceive why you suppose nation musicians are in any approach uniquely positioned to have this dialog.

Nicely, and I wish to I admire you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I wish to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties stated its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different elements of the South had been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of faculties, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.

Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.

All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That exhibits our capability as a as a neighborhood to exist outdoors of the state. Now, identical to in that point, the state legislator stated, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We solid the deciding vote on on girls’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the dying knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to alter. , 50 years from now I believe we will be wanting again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the US.

Once more, I wish to deliver it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know in regards to the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really sort of robust grip in a approach programmers do, and even current historical past. Proper. When you concentrate on the Dixie Chicks, and so forth., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.

, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you understand, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the 12 months.

Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?

They’ve a extremely far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our children. And I am asking them by way of this piece and in addition nose to nose in my neighborhood, by way of conversations of textual content. , I’ve reached out to so many singers prior to now two weeks.

And what sort of textual content you ship.

Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music neighborhood within the wake of the capturing and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out in the present day in The Occasions. In the event you get a sec, please have a look.

What’s been essentially the most optimistic response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?

Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I believe silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new music on the topic. For the reason that capturing, which is simply two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective resolution.

I imply, the rationale why I am asking is as a result of your op ed stated one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the sort of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you stated, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It isn’t like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I suppose what wouldn’t it take, do you suppose, for individuals in your trade? To begin to do one thing related, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.

It’s starting and it is, I believe, in its infancy, however it’s already began.

And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing a giant bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have got a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant College. And while you have a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it isn’t the same old Americana people who all the time say, you understand, we stand with children, we get up towards gun violence. As a substitute, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.

However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a protected area from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for a giant artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no one’s going to stand up and say we must always have gun management.

There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we now have began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence towards youngsters in our colleges or about the necessity to rethink the kinds of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when someone takes one step and the motion can shortly observe it, then the following step is not as laborious to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. , I’ve gotten loads of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you understand, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you understand, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer time. So, I imply, I am I am used to enjoying to an viewers that’s our nation people. However I like my nation people viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 huge silos within the nation. Like, I would go to work in a single silo and are available residence and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I like these individuals.

What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?

Nation music has an ideal future in these instances to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that fact. , it’s totally a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the good spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!

Are you able to discuss in regards to the music that you’ve got written out of this second?

New materials? , usually, identical to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with loads of totally different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you understand, writing the appropriate caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and try to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our children will not be protected of their colleges. What meaning for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to jot down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I acquired a brand new music that is popping out known as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.

Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.

Nicely, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you understand, individuals are cagey about their new stuff!

You are coping with a dude that wept by way of the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.

All proper. awakened this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half approach. This time it was individuals I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it will cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a regulation on a dusty scroll.

Ketch Secor is the daddy of two children in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Outdated Crow Drugs Present.

Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our govt producer. Particular due to Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.

I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not wish to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not wish to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.

Sending that one out to Louisville in the present day.

Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Yeah, we acquired. We acquired to. We acquired to do it, y’all.